Roll Call: Serge (Joseph), Mark (Philip), Alex (Darrolid), Paul H. (Janaki), Jo (Rosalie), Paul T. (Antolian), Ester (Benata), Jim (Jericho), Bobbi (Lillith)
Session starts at 7:52 PM.
KRIS: Now then we are glad that you are all so eager and anxious for more. (Laughter)
MARK: Indeed.
KRIS: And a welcome to our long distance friends.
CASTAIC GROUP: Hi. Hello, etc.
KRIS: It is nice to sense all of your presences and all of your lovely selves.
Now perhaps this is an opportune evening to bring about both some clarification and perhaps something new, something titillating that will occasion the asking of more questions. We hope that this meets your approval.
CASTAIC GROUP: (In unison) Absolutely! (Laughter)
KRIS: There has been some questions of late of our use of the word “QUADRANTS” in terms of “Quadrants of Consciousness”. Do you recall that?
MARK: Very much so.
PAUL H. Kris, I think that the folks here could use a recap.
KRIS: Indeed then. WE made reference to this word in conjunction with the Families of Consciousness, the group of families under the heading of “the Taaj”, as well as various other clusters with their own representative families, specifically referenced to “Quadrants of Consciousness” and by that we mean it from OUR perspective.
This may be somewhat difficult because you are accustomed to sectioning off of information into the various pigeon holes of your awareness and rational, intellectual understandings, as well as finding appropriate subjective references to try and understand almost anything that comes your way. This is not a fault but it is conscious, linear information processing. From our perspective there are quadrants to consciousness, sections where vast quantities of information and living experience is categorized and this is why we said it would be difficult because the tendency would be to section this into four segments. Even though we use the word quadrant and each must therefore be separate and independent from the other even though this is not necessarily the case.
We will try to clarify this. In one quadrant you will find all of the experiences pertaining to perceptions. That includes all of various bodies we have described last week that themselves pertain to the physical senses, as well as those bodies that pertain to the inner senses, each aligned with one of the fourteen gateways we have described previously. From that perspective you have an enormous abundance of tools that enable you to manipulate energy and from that state create and manifest circumstances and the conditions of physical reality in all of its colorful expressions, individually and collectively.
In another quadrant are to be found, all of the necessary tools and materials pertaining specifically to ESSENCE. Now, of course these divisions or apparent divisions are arbitrary and not absolute. In this is the second division you have all of the interactions within the state of essence that flow freely into the first quadrant, sustaining and nourishing he first quadrant and expanding that specific quadrant. This second quadrant, pertaining to essence, contains what you also understand to be frameworks or regional areas or levels, in almost all of their permutations.
And as we move into a third quadrant we find here all materials pertaining to multidimensional structures that include the outer peripheries that pertain to clusters of consciousness in all of their permutations over and above anything that we have shared up to this time. This is a vast area unto itself that sustains and nurtures in its turn the second quadrant.
Over and above that in the fourth quadrant, this is where words MAY fail but in this fourth quadrant we find what we can only call CORE ENERGY. In the ancient Puranas, the Veda this specific quadrant would be referred to as BRAHMAJYOTI and though we do not specifically relish the use of the word LIGHT, this is where the core light stems from and it in turn nourishes and sustains the third which cascades into the third which cascades into the second which cascades into the first quadrant. This is why we have mentioned that divisions are arbitrary and non-existent because there are interactions between all of these and even the term NESTED in itself is somewhat inadequate as even though one is found in the other, the other may also contain the one.
And it is possible through understandings to actually capture a sense of all of these by paying attention, by noticing various stages of differentiation and non-differentiation of your own perceptive mechanism. We are fully aware that the tendency is to regard information in terms of dualism and non-dualism to try to get a grasp on, acquire a certain sense of the vast cosmology of self and in order to try and find specific equilibrium within this type of dualism and non-dualism tendencies we will bring about something that may be of assistance. We are also fully aware that for many millennia your species have often waged wars in trying to establish various philosophical perceptions, points of views, doctrines and teachings and often the baby is thrown out with the bath water in the process, because of the tendency to want to pigeon hole philosophies and information into either a dualistic or a non-dualistic perception. And since from our own perspective we do not agree with either state as being the absolute: but that the truth may indeed be found in between!
As well as we have looked into many of your philosophies through many different time periods, even into your future, we have found indeed a word that describes what we are perhaps trying to convey than those words that can lead to trying to pigeon hole experiences and information into dualism and non-dualistic states.
The word is derived from the Tibetan language and in itself it is a word that is not well understood. The word in Tibetan has an equivalent in Sanskrit, as well as in other cultures. In Tibetan the word is BARDO. You are familiar with this word?
PAUL AND PAUL: Yes.
MARK: We aren’t here.
ALEX: Can you spell that please.
KRIS: It is spelled BARDO in its English equivalent. In Sanskrit, the most appropriate word would be SVAHA (Kris then spells it), both meaning approximately the very same thing, meaning INTERMITTENT or IN BETWEEN STATE and STAGES1.
Is this correct, Janaki?
PAUL H: Intermittent. Could the word intermediate also be used?
KRIS: Indeed as well as in between. So we are therefore presenting this and we will also subsequently provide more information because we have a specific point in mind this evening and understanding this bardo or svaha is very important to a very specific understanding of selfhood.
Now what is the time?
MARK: 8:14
KRIS: We will suggest a small break. Is this correct?
MARK: Yes.
(8:14 PM. Break starts)
(New Audio File: 3 Bardo and Svaha Oct 04 2004.wav)
(8:21 PM. Session resumes)
KRIS: Now, before anyone begins to catalogue the fourth quadrant into a distance corner of the galaxy, far, far away from your being, we had best clarify that this specific quadrant that contains the core is ever present in your being and is only apparent to you intermittently between your fluctuations of awareness which includes those experiences that you would call LAPSES of awareness even as you leave this physical form and enter another.
It is not something that is far away and unattainable but is ever present. It does not appear to you when you are aware of something else such as the interaction with your physical senses and their various bodies interacting with physical matter. Thus, even though nested one within the other might be a close approximation, it is still slightly insufficient because they are acting, always one within the other. You might only perceive that specific energy from the quadrant when your awareness is not so completely directed in another area which might also include the six stages or aspects of Bardo, such as when you are between sleeping and dreaming, between death and leaving the body or entering a body and so on and so forth but that particular presence is ALWAYS within and part of whom and what you.
It is also directly in line with the other subject that we wished to bring about this evening. As far as you have come to understand up till now, you are aware of yourself as focus of Essence. You might care to be also become aware of other focuses of essence and you are likely to marginally be aware of yourself as essence.
What we are suggesting this evening is that you are also CORE energy which utilizes the broader and wider body of essence apart from the other bodies that you manifest and experience through. In other words you are the core of essence.
In our perspective then, your essence self is another of your expressions, that you are still something MORE, and the most appropriate word that we find at this time is CORE (Kris then spells core). From the CORE self you project a focus of Essence which projects focuses of Essence and that should be reworded. Essence is a projection or a focus of Core and your various personalities are focuses of essence and your Core self permeates all of realities that you could possibly imagine and conceive of and then some, making up this fourth quadrant.
This is why we referred to the word Bardo or Svaha specifically because its teachings can enable you to perceive these wider spectrums of your own self through the intermittent actions that can direct your perceptions through all of the various bodies that you have.
Now we are also aware that Joseph will object AGAIN to what we have said but he will come to understand it as well.
Do you have questions?
PAUL H: I have a question. This is Janaki. It is clear as it can be, to me, what we have just been discussing in terms of this map. The first question I have is: I saw you condense the first quadrant as the body, the second quadrant as essence and the FOURTH quadrant as core energy and as you went through the third quadrant you used the term multi-dimensional structures.
KRIS: Indeed.
PAUL H: I am just curious. Have you sort of…not collapsed them but sometimes when we are doing these maps we do only a three or a four, I mean you have a four here but you also did a three with core, essence and focus. This could just be an I, I, I, so I am just curious about the multi-dimensional structures in the third quadrant that weren’t included in that essence focus and core.
KRIS: Indeed. From core you quite naturally expand your energies to create a very wide array of structures which we have started to assemble under the heading of clusters of consciousness. Though you might find it difficult to keep track of your own families in this Taaj Cluster, in YOUR neighborhood, (laughter) you at that once removed again stage, project your own energies through a multitude of dimensions and arrangements where there are hundreds of arrangements of families of consciousness from which, in this dimension, you then project the specific grid that enables the nine families, as you know them, but you are not concentrated wholly or entirely within this particular group of families. You experiment on an enormous scale with many other types of arrangements or organizations thereof. These are in the third quadrant.
We did not dilly dally too much in this one because we are working on the clusters themselves with you, therefore directed your attention more directly to the second. Does that make sense to you?
PAUL H: Yes. Yes it does. Another follow up question then is this fourth quadrant, what you are calling core energy; wouldn’t that be virtually what Seth called the “Primary Pyramid Gestalt”? (Pause). He talks about gestalt pyramid energy gestalts which in my mind I think of that in the third quadrant as clusters, what you are calling clusters, what Elias calls “Pools of Consciousness”, but then Seth called them “Pyramid Energy Gestalts” and then takes them up a notch and describes a PRIMARY, perhaps we could even use the word ultimate pyramid energy gestalt.
KRIS: That would be the equivalent and this is also where, we have referred to as your core self, has its primary or primal ROOT, from there, from that specific layer then, the third, the second and the first quadrants cascade from the core of your being.
PAUL H: That is very clear, Kris.
KRIS: We do apologize if words sometimes become impediments themselves to expressions. It would be SO much easier if we could simply telepathically transmit this nugget of information into your lovely brains.
PAUL H: You are welcome to do that in the dream state. I am giving you permission to do that in dream state.
MARK: Believe me, he has started already.
(Laughter)
PAUL H: We know that he has been doing it for a while.
MARK: I have a quick question. The Netjers, where do they fall in this spectrum?
KRIS: They are CORE!
MARK: They are core?
KRIS: Indeed.
MARK: I got that impression.
KRIS: Just as YOU are core.
MARK: Yes.
KRIS: So principally, in spite of all of the other information, our central target this week was to stir the pot once again and present to you that from our perspective then, your essence is another manifestation of your core and from essence then you direct your focuses and your aspects. Does that make sense?
PAUL H: It does and just one more question, a follow up question. The Vedantic traditions, you are using quadrants, they are using Koshas and they claim that in waking state, dreaming state and deep dreamless state that we are moving through this chain of being of sorts and I just wanted to, Ramana Maharshi was a twentieth century Vedantic Sage who talks about how to, how someone who reads this transcript could attempt to experience what you are talking about and that is if one can stay awake and however we define awake, it’s a wider definition of awake, but if one could stay awake from transition state to dreaming state and witness that and from dreaming state to dreamless, formless sleep, at every twenty-four hours, every human being essentially goes through a state, not a stage of development, but a STATE which cycles through these four quadrants. If one could stay awake they could witness these four quadrants during those states. Is that accurate, Kris?
KRIS: Up to a degree. Do understand that the stage of deep dreamless sleep only appears so but you still have actions at that particular layer that may not register on the brain simply because it is too foreign. Do you understand?
PAUL H: Yes.
KRIS: There are no (unclear word) and there are no emptinesses in that specific literal sense of the word. When it appears that there is an emptiness, even in the highest Buddhist most meaning of the word, you still have interactions of consciousness that are too FOREIGN for the registering mechanism within the psyche focused in the human expression to adequately interpret so therefore it is simply erased, it is not noticed. Does that make sense to you?
PAUL H: Yes but I would like to believe that upon occasion, however the novelty, spontaneity within consciousness works, that a human expression could on occasion come back from that deep dreamless state, that empty state and I know what we are talking about translating into these different layers and these different bodies and different expressions and having a knowing, a simple feeling of being, validating what you are saying.
KRIS: You do have, in certain levels of sleep, a particular station where the individual is permitted some respite as in regeneration, therefore holding at bay any specific actions and interactions other than simply the state of regeneration. Therefore any activities and actions are suspended that may be interpreted as that emptiness. Does that make sense?
PAUL H: I understand. So these sages that anyone can look up on the internet and get a book in a bookstore and I am thinking of Ramana Maharshi in particular and the way that they describe this emptiness and they did in their own experience in a way they did manage to stay awake and experience this core energy in some way. They didn’t understand it. They did their best to try and explain it in terms of language and the maps of the cultures that they were in, for some reason they were able to stay awake and experience this and share it with everyone and say “Hey, this condition is real and you can experience it”.
KRIS: Indeed. Now this comes to a point of contention between traditional Vedontists where you have the philosophies of dvaita and advaita, dualism and non-dualism, where you have specific schools of thought that lean towards advaita that states that “any such explorations of consciousness is MEANT to bring the human being to the recognition to its state of eternal servitude to a supreme being” where the philosophies concerning dvaita or non-dualism REJECT the idea that one has to become subservient to the ideal of a supreme being that exacts servitude. Do you understand?
PAUL H: Yes and that is something that philosopher Ken Wilber would call the mythic world view or mythic interpretation of that dogma, so to speak that a type of servitude is necessary because at wider levels of understanding these sages don’t talk about that, at least the sages that I am finding.
KRIS: Indeed. There is a great deal yet that can be discovered and explored and our specific choosing of the words bardo or svaha is also meant to indicate that you can take the “art of noticing” up a notch from an art to an actual science or if you wish an art-science and by this noticing, begin recognizing that CORE self GENERATES all other expressions which INCLUDES essence, which INCLUDES all focuses and aspects and by this noticing it becomes easier to recognize that you are truly no longer in need of feeling as if you are specifically entangled and a victim of the actions and interactions of the physical senses and the physical matter and the events and the conditions and the circumstances of human life whether particularly related to your focuses in this here and now or yourself as focus in another here and now whether that here and now happens to be here and now. Does that make sense to you?
PAUL H: A hall of mirrors. Yes.
ESTER: I have a question.
KRIS: Indeed.
ESTER: You were talking about the core self and as core self there is the possibility of having more than one essence.
KRIS: That is why we talked about quadrant THREE where there are literally HUNDREDS of clusters filled with a few to thousands of essence families that are themselves the focal point of many, MANY essences. Do you follow?
ESTER: Yes.
KRIS: Does this also make sense to you Janaki?
(No response)
PAUL T: This is Antolian. Again referring to Ken Wilber, he speaks at length about the condition of one taste, essentially the non-dualistic traditions which although I don’t think that I have experienced it directly, I think from an intellectual stand point I can understand it’s the nesting in simple is-ness of everything and goes beyond the dualism. Is that, what you are describing, is the core?
KRIS: From our perspective, even though you enjoy states of differentiation and non-differentiation, self as separate from objects observed by self, you are still in some manner parceling your energies into objects apparently outside of self. The middle path might express this more clearly in terms of both states of differentiation and non-differentiation, dualism / non-dualism, dvaita / advaita, cannot necessarily be absolutes in their areas. They are all intermingled. You fluctuate them from one to the other and from CORE then, it is simple a position where differentiation and non-differentiation is neither here nor there. Neither state is valid because you are beyond both states, but both states are used as intermediates to your experiences. Does that make some sense to you?
PAUL T: Yes it does because Ken talks about the eternal witness, where you get to the point of witnessing everything, when you go beyond witnessing you go into this fourth quadrant, I presume that in his writings they are intermingled in each other, yet they can be experienced as different states.
PAUL H: And he actually uses the word “turiyatita” which means a fourth state.
KRIS: Indeed and this one of the main reasons why dualists and non-dualists, those that follow the path of dvaita and advaita, may never truly walk the same road together, because they are unable at this point that together they make more of a whole than separately. Do you understand?
PAUL T: (chuckling) Yes.
PAUL H: And that is what the integral approach that Ken Wilber promotes is all about. It is attempting to situate dvaita / advaita, differentiation / non-differentiation in between and situated in such a way as a holonic set of relationships that you are not marginalizing it, it doesn’t have to be on or the other, either or.
KRIS: The problem is that both traditional dualist and non-dualists still try to interpret the experience from the linear perspective, therefore see a need to make a differentiation even with non-differentiation. What we are speaking about then is a STATE that encompasses both without a need to differentiate between differentiation and non-differentiation. That is why we have referred to it as CORE self. Do you understand?
PAUL H: Yes, so far.
KRIS: Indeed. Now, what is the time?
MARK: 8:56
KRIS: We suggest another small break from the bardo of the core!
(Laughter)
(Break starts at 8:56 PM.)
(New Audio File: 4 Second Break Oct 04 2004.wav)
(CONVERSATIONS AT BREAK: We talked about the core having multiple essences and whether or not there was a single core for all essences and focuses.)
(New Audio File: 5 Sound Intonation Oct 04 2004.wav)
9:03 PM. Session re-starts
KRIS: Even the humble act of searching within at that subjective experience level, trying to gather the sense of BETWEEN differentiation and non-differentiation is sufficient to enable you to experience even a small iota of that concept and of course the dear ego construction will be very careful because there is the engrained perception that at some level, to venture too far into that state then ego construction will be vacuumed out into a great nothing, because from the ego’s perspective anything outside of its realm of understanding is questionable and may endanger its position.
So naturally you will venture out in small increments, but it is sufficient to grasp the understanding upon which you can then continue to experiment. In so many words as well, this can you an insight as to why we prefer to look at essence root and focus affiliations from a three tiered perspective and obviously what we call the primary, secondary and tertiary have nothing to do with one being superior and one being inferior to the other, but we had to begin somewhere, Thus by enabling the individual to widen their understanding of the interactions between the different families within the Taaj or even outside of it. It is possible to start stretching the boundaries of the conceptual self further and further into its original nature, even if it is only by increments. Does that make some sense?
PAUL H: Yes and a question then, we are used to thinking in terms of Seth and Elias that there is a physical five sense perception and then inner senses perceptions but at this third and fourth quadrant level you are hinting at a different type of perception. I mean that inner senses…you said inner senses; you put inner senses in the first quadrant actually so second, third and fourth…what I am grasping towards is; we are in the first quadrant. This is a first quadrant conversation and construction going on here. We have a sense with honing our conceptual inner senses as a tool to grasp these concepts and I am realizing that there is something beyond that. I am wondering if you want to comment on that now or if you want to wait until later.
KRIS: We prefer to wait until you have formulated your question somewhat differently. Now, we have only intoned sounds twice, the first time with you, the second time in a private session, but if you look at YOUR first time hearing the sounds you would have a specific reaction.
Each of you felt a specific resonance that went beyond the body, beyond the physical senses into the inner senses and perhaps even further. That is why you reactions were so profound. Do you understand?
MARK: Indeed.
KRIS: Do you understand?
CASTAIC GROUP: Yes.
KRIS: Indeed. Now, the sounds themselves were also meant to initiate a physical reaction but from the perspective of core so that you would have a slight inkling of the energy that, not only exist within the cells of your body but BETWEEN the cells of your body. In other words, into a state off your own body that is non-differentiated INCLUDING differentiated. Do you follow?
CASTAIC GROUP: Yes.
KRIS: These sounds as you have surmised can have a powerful affect and can indeed be utilized in many situations and we are quite ready to provide MORE, especially while you are still thinking of pursuing your initial idea, Rosalie. (Pause). Do you follow?
MARK: Rosalie?
PAUL T: He is talking about the singing.
JO: Oh, awesome! Yes!
KRIS: We are so glad that you are paying attention. (Laughter).
JO: I just walked out of the room for a minute to blow my nose and he caught me.
KRIS: You went to go make some other kinds of sounds. (Laughter).
MARK: Rosalie, what was you initial intent?
JO: The CD project? Is that what you mean?
KRIS: Indeed.
JO: Kris does Cole Porter or something like that on a CD. (Laughter). The idea really was that I would love to have heard a whole CD worth of those sounds.
PAUL T: Kris, are you willing to grace us with you voice once again this evening?
MARK: I think that he is waiting for us to shut up so that he will. (Laughter).
KRIS: Now far be it from our humble self to presume that we have such a beautiful voice and to also presume that your ears would want MORE, but indeed it is not so difficult. There are different sounds that can be produced such as:
Sounds 1
KRIS: Now, these are not long sounds, but OBSERVE how you are interacting with the sounds at this moment.
PAUL T: This is Antolian. This time they got me!
KRIS: As Joseph would say: YES! (Pulling his closed fist downwards with a bent elbow).
(Grand laughter)
MARK: Arm movements and all!
ALEX: I wish you all could have seen that!
KRIS: Now then, there are long sounds that can also be produced:
Sounds 2
KRIS: With a larger lung capacity it would be possible to producer longer sounds still. There are different types of sounds again. More of chant, per se:
Sounds 3
KRIS: Each one has a different effect upon your physical form as well as your subjective self. Now, we do not wish to take advantage of Joseph’s vocal chords.
MARK: Oh, go for it! (Laughter)
KRIS: Do you have any other questions.
JIM: This is Jericho. I have a question.
KRIS: Indeed.
JIM: Our last meeting together you talked about the Tibetan singing bowls and I was beginning to acquire them and have acquired them talking about sound here, I was wondering if you could some insights into perhaps utilizing these sounds, the ones you gave us tonight and the one’s that you gave me for the gateway and incorporating the singing bowls as well.
KRIS: Indeed. Now, how many bowls do you have?
JIM: Four.
KRIS: Do you add any liquids to them?
JIM: I haven’t yet. I just read about that the other day, adding water to create different tones and sounds.
KRIS: Indeed. Experiment, each with different levels and keep track. Say, in one bowl you put one inch, another bowl you put two inches, another bowl three and another bowl four, from the smallest at one inch to the biggest at four inches. Correct?
JIM: Yes.
KRIS: Then try the inverse, the smaller bowl with the most water and see what kinds of sounds that extract from them. Play with various levels of water. Pay specific attention to the hemispheres of the brain when you extract the sounds from the bowls. If at all possible make recordings. When you find specific combinations that bring about a high state within your mind, say more than others, then use the recording to play it back and meditate specifically on the quality of the sound and your interaction with it and see where that takes you AND be ready to go anywhere that is.
JIM: Okay.
JO: I have heard of doing bowls before but not like that. (Laughter).
JIM: And one more. We spoke too about animal communication and I spoke to my horse and he offered the tone, the sound of “NOYA” and it sounded a lot like some of the expressions that you offered here just moments ago. Would that be a correct interpretation of what he may have offered me?
KRIS: Please repeat.
JIM: Repeat the question?
KRIS: Indeed.
JIM: The sound that my horse offered me from our last talk as well was “NOYA”, I believe and creating that sound and creating communication with these creatures. Would that be a correct interpretation of that?
KRIS: We believe that is good.
JIM: Thank you.
KRIS: Now then, we believe that your metaphysical core for this evening has been quite a journey, therefore we will return Joseph to you and perhaps you can continue to discuss amongst yourself, for as Philip and Joseph are fond of saying; “You never know when we will turn up again”.
(Laughter)
Or for that matter, WHERE.
CASTAIC GROUP: Thank you Kris.
9:23 PM. Session Ends
1NOTE: After reading this session, I got the very strong impression from Kris that his whole sentence on this was not completed, almost like perhaps I inadvertently dropped off bits of it in the translation to the session. This was a very condensed session, very much packed, and likely a little 'bit' fell through the crack in the inner translation process.
As to svaha, I believe the full sentence in this regard should have been something like: "There is a sanskrit word, svaha, also used by the Ojibway Native American people with a specific meaning related to the word Bardo in Tibetan, that has almost the same meaning, though used in a sligtly different context that can still apply here". Or something to that effect at least.
However, I also got just now from Kris that "though the surface use of the word 'svaha' in sanskrit is related to the god Agni's wife (the goddess Svaha), it also has an deeper or internal meaning in regards to what is called vedic fire sacrifice ceremonies (fire jagya) (not to worry - no one is sacrificed - rather an ceremony to give thanks for plentyful harvests to the god Vishnu by throwing fruits and seeds into a sacred fire accompanied by the recitation of mantras), having to do with specific intermediates in the peformance and function of the sacred chants as well.
In sankrits sacred chants, the pauses or intervals or intermediates (or withholding release of air) are as important as the words used in the chants (where there is release of air).
