MARK: Good evening and welcome to another evening of Kris radio here on thatradio.com. My name is Mark Bukator and I am your co-host, and I am here with the birthday boy! Happy birthday, Johnny!

JOHN: Thank you very much Mark, I appreciate that.

SERGE: Yes John is 29 or 39?

JOHN: I’m…

SERGE: Mind my manners. (Chuckling)

JOHN: I'm 57 years old but you know, I figure that's middle age if I live to be 114.

MARK and SERGE: True, true.

MARK: Somebody else has a birthday coming up, the other co-host here.

SERGE: Mark?

MARK: No, not me. That would be you!

SERGE: Oh me! Oh I forgot about my birthday.

MARK: Serge’s birthday is coming up on Tuesday. It's also Queen Victoria's birthday, happy birthday Vicki!

SERGE: Not on my birthday.

(Laughter)

MARK: So over dinner, John in I started up a conversation and we realize that Kris often uses the term official reality and unofficial…

SERGE: It’s ‘official line of consciousness, unofficial line of consciousness.’

MARK: …Line of consciousness and unofficial line of consciousness and it dawned on me that people who follow the transcripts oft will have an inkling our understanding of this but not everybody in radio land does, so we thought we should clarify this and in our discussions we realized that there are lots of interpretations of this. For me, the official line of consciousness is that which we can see, feel, touch, taste, the stream of information that's on our televisions and in our newspapers and books, that's the official reality.

And the unofficial are those bits of information that come to us through intuition, through feelings, emotions, dreams, daydreams, imaginations, that type of thing.

JOHN: Yes, we’ve just had dinner at the food court at the Eden Center and as I looked around the food court… the Eden Center for those of you who don't know Toronto… is a huge industrial shopping mall, not industrial excuse me, it's a huge shopping mall, commercial and it's just a gigantic building with thousands of people in it and many, many stores and all of the usual suspects in the way of stores meaning… you know, The Gap and you know, all the big names.

So I looked around at all that and said ‘well this is official reality’ and unofficial reality is the reality that we find ourselves in when we wake up at 3:00 in the morning in our dark bedrooms and extend our minds out into the ethers and imagine what might be going on, so what came from that was my idea that official reality might be what you think of as a consensus reality that we all agree to in our waking conscious objective point of view, and unofficial reality could be thought of as the individual unique private reality that we each experience when we're alone.

MARK: Something else that we talked about, touched upon is that we as a civilization and the society don't put all lot of stock into our dreams but that’s not true for all individuals. So where's that dividing line between official and unofficial, for maybe as a group it's more so unofficial but for some individuals who do pay attention to their dreams and study their dreams and work with their dreams, it's a lot more official.

JOHN: Well that suggests that the boundary, let's call it a boundary, between official reality and unofficial line of consciousness could be thought of as in a sense a kind of a moving, variable thing because from what I've been reading about other civilizations, for instance the dream state, intuition, impressions, even bleed-throughs… some from other focal awarenesses we’re accepted as an official part of reality in other civilizations and yet they would still have, I would think, an unofficial line as well that supported that. Now I do think we have uh… likely were going to get a visit here from…

KRIS: The official observer.

(Laughter)

KRIS: Now we trust that you are comfortable and we thank you for your consideration.

MARK: Thank you Kris.

KRIS: When you explore the concept of an official line of consciousness in tandem with an unofficial line of consciousness, you need to take into account consensus reality which works then on both issues simultaneously. You have a consensus on what is to be considered the official reality as well as a consensus on what is to be the unofficial reality. So there is always an official and unofficial consensus reality, you cannot have it otherwise. Does this make sense to you?

JOHN: Yes.

MARK: Yes very much so.

KRIS: Indeed. As well, for the purpose of the discussion, the official line of consciousness is subject to periodic editing, change, in what you call your ancient cultures and civilizations as you've briefly alluded to. There were indeed many groups who considered dreams for instance, as valid communications from the divines. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes.

KRIS: In most of the modern world, such a view is rather frowned upon as old wives' tales though we have yet to meet an old wife who would tell such tales and most likely refuted to the file on superstitions held by what you could consider then unsophisticated gullible, primitive society because they did not have the combustion engine, the washing machine and the internet. Does this also make sense?

MARK: Yes it does.

KRIS: In many of these old cultures, and one does not have to go back millions of years into the past, look at your ancient Greek culture, Egyptians and many from 2 to 4000 years ago and some, not that far back in time, where dreams and omens, signs were considered, and some places still are considered of some significance in the life of the individual as a communication from some divine being or another. That represents what we have long ago called gaps within the official line of consciousness where in some cases, the official line of consciousness is indeed as filled with holes as a piece of swiss cheese.

The beautiful arrangements and capabilities of the ego construction make it so that for the most part, these gaps or holes in the official line of consciousness are quickly skimmed over or even simply rendered invisible so as not to upset the status quo because when you upset the status quo, and you start bringing the unofficial line of consciousness to the discussion table, what are you indicating? That the apparent rock-solid foundation of reality based upon the studies of the intellect, of the rational mind may not be built upon the rock of scientific reason and that may upset the stalwart guardians of that official line of consciousness. Does that make sense to you?

JOHN: Absolutely.

MARK: Very clear.

KRIS: The official line of consciousness as we have suggested moments ago, is subject to various editings and changes. Again going back to some older civilizations, they are official line of consciousness is very different from yours in the sense that their official line of consciousness included more elements from the unofficial line of consciousness from your perspective.

And these are in themselves cyclical. This present official line of consciousness will be changed. Elements from the unofficial will take root and are presently taking root within it and it will then again expand into more of what you presently consider the unofficial till at some point, then the unofficial will become a large part of the official and it will too become official and it too again will go through its own cycles, it will expand and then converge again.

Every five to eight, perhaps even a bit more thousands of years there are massive transformations at those layers of consciousness therefore the societies, the civilizations, the cultures, the individuals, also reflect those cycles and this brings in entirely new sets of paradigms, entirely new sets of… we are searching for a word… literally new configurations of awareness and this in itself allows continuous influxes of expressions of Essence that are ready for their kinds of challenges, depending upon the paradigms associated with the various official or unofficial lines of consciousness and what kind of challenges these can provide for the individuals themselves. Do you follow?

JOHN: Yeah, that's interesting.

MARK: Yes.

JOHN: So just to think that through, that suggests that we're at the cusp so to speak of one of these massive shifts.

KRIS: Indeed. Now we have heard it said that some individuals believe that as this particular progression evolves, all sorts of wondrous miraculous things may begin to occur, like pigs flying and the moon suddenly actually being recognized as made of cheese.

JOHN: That’s why the pigs are flying.

KRIS: So the question is, is it camembert or gouda?

(Chuckling)

KRIS: There are many, many kinds of assumptions thrown into the mix. There are even individuals and whole groups and societies who believe that any day now, any time, individuals in their physical forms will begin to ascend… whatever that means. That corporeally, they themselves will be able to defy laws of physics, somehow or other the root assumptions of your reality and physically move on to other dimensions. The concept is most interesting, though the practicality is an entirely different ball of wax, and take it from us, we have seen many balls of wax over our cycles of all hues and shapes.

The point being, that most of these assumptions are based on the principle that your human life is somehow or other an impediment to your spiritual unfolding. And that somehow or other you must as quickly as possible purify yourself and divest yourself of the gross matter that is your physical form, that you must become more spiritual. Unfortunately you cannot become more spiritual than you are now because you are composed of consciousness, you are awareness. Your focus or attention is on a particular journey but you already are not your physical form. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes. (John confirms)

KRIS: Such thinking in itself does represent unique and interesting potentials already formulated if you wish, behind the scenes, immediately behind and literally hiding behind the very hedges of the official line of consciousness but it is often distorted and misinterpreted and gets lost in the translation. However if you do understand the premise of what are the official and unofficial lines of consciousness, you can recognize an enormous amount of information and the knowledge… (Kris pauses while sirens are blaring in the background) …we believe that this (sirens) is a representative of the official line of consciousness.

(Laughter)

JOHN: Oh at least.

KRIS: Now when you can understand the premises of consciousness and what you do with it, what you utilize it for and how you separate it into official and unofficial, you can do yourselves and immense service. The official line of consciousness as you have pointed out, is one of two consensus. Do you remember?

JOHN: Yes.

KRIS: One that says ‘for this experiment, these are the rules’. For instance, your present scientific, medical academies for the most part, as well as large political influx together more or less set the rules for this experiment in the official line of consciousness for your culture. Do you follow so far?

ALL: Yes.

KRIS: This can only subsist because your species also simultaneously recognizes the unofficial line of consciousness intuitively, telepathically, however you wish to define it, it is still acknowledged and therefore kept out of the picture to some extent and it then becomes the unofficial line of consciousness. And everything that does not fit the criteria for the official line of consciousness based upon certain premises, which in many respects are little more than the result of a consensus or agreement that this is how the experiment will function this time around, as opposed to what is contained within the agreements of the unofficial line of consciousness. Do you still follow?

MARK: Yes.

KRIS: And that which does not meet the criteria for the official is then considered unofficial and that can be anything from your dreams, your feelings, your intuitions, telepathy and a host of other venues for consciousness. And because of the manner in which you function within the scope of this dualism between official and unofficial, you necessarily have to narrow the windows of your perceptions. Not so long ago we spoke about your representations of reality as actually being the kind of reality you have your existence in.

JOHN: Right.

KRIS: This can be considered then a subcategory of your official line of consciousness made to fit within the larger paradigms of the official-official line of consciousness. Do you follow?

(Chuckling)

ALL: Yes.

KRIS: One is nested within the other because the larger in so many ways does not necessarily permit any other perspectives and perceptions or so it thinks. Remember the Swiss cheese.

JOHN: Right.

KRIS: There are then constant bleed-throughs from what you call your intuitions, telepathy, empathy and so many other labels that manage to sneak their way into even your personal official line or view of consciousness. But again within the parameters of your own belief systems, you will interpret the unofficial, sometimes in such a manner that it is so distorted it is not recognizable. That is not necessarily any fault of your own. That is the challenge you have set for yourself to push the boundaries towards the unofficial lines of consciousness so that you may perceive existence in such a manner that it is larger than yourself, heroic in dimension in such a manner that you indeed touch what you call is the divine, that which is larger than your own perceptions of reality. So it is always one nested within the other, because you are maybe focused on the official line of consciousness, you do not necessarily pay attention to all of the bleed-throughs and other experiences that are constantly sneaking by as it were. Does this make sense to you?

JOHN: I think so.

MARK: Oh yeah.

KRIS: If you have questions, please feel free.

JOHN: Well this has been a useful discussion for me so far because it’s helped me to understand that I have my own personal official line of reality which is nested within the consensus, official line of reality. That had escaped me, I hadn't considered that. But on another slightly different perspective on this, this strikes me… the tension or the field of play that we create between the official and the unofficial reminds me quite strongly of the opposing/allowing peace.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: So official…

KRIS: Even at those layers, the play is still afoot.

JOHN: Right. Now I'm not sure, you got into a discussion there of how we… the fact that we’re always reaching beyond gives us an opportunity to experience the divine, which was just a little nutty for me in my mind.

KRIS: You could also substitute the word divine for your own greater your purposes, your own greater actions, your own greater Self.

JOHN: So is it fair to say that no matter how wide my… let's call it my own personal official reality might be, that there will always be a plus element there that is outside of that, that is sneaking in through the holes in the cheese.

KRIS: There is always a series of such actions occurring to bring to your awareness that you are more than the sum of all of your parts and as soon as you think you have all the prettiest parts neatly assembled under your wing, like the hen with her chicks, you find one sneaky little bugger got away.

JOHN: Or there's a goose in… a gosling in there, an ugly duckling that’s gonna grow up into something interesting. (Chuckling)

KRIS: Indeed. There is always a kind of challenge that eggs you on and on whenever you think you now have it down pat, that you know the answers, that you know how it works, that everything now is understood, you have just deeply misunderstood your whole self. The self is not about being understood but it is about being lived. You only understand self when you are afraid of living. True knowledge, and we have spoken about this before, true knowledge, true wisdom, true reason does not come merely from understanding the words, no matter how prettily and philosophically they are strung together, no matter how beautiful the prose. It comes when you allow yourself to proverbially get dirty with consciousness and with life.

When you dive in, then an awakening takes place beyond the neurological faculties for words and related syntactical conceptualizations that instead becomes pure living experience. That is when you get into the second mind. It is beyond the stages of mental speculation, it is beyond intellectual conceptualization, it is beyond thinking about it, it is the realm of action and that is what consciousness, awareness, awakening and higher intellect is about.

When a mother, about to deliver, begins to philosophize about her situation, decides to read books about labor, discuss it in chat rooms and forums or with other individuals but actually refuses to engage in the act of labor, what do you think happens? Nothing, except a great deal of mind-boggling pain.

JOHN: Plus eventually something's gonna give.

KRIS: Indeed, without fault. The point in this rather crude analogy is that when the moment comes, allow the process to lead you into the awakening, into the experience. Do not deny it, do not oppose it. You do not even have to embrace it, but LIVE it, EXPERIENCE it. The sage who is a truly enlightened, does not talk about how enlightened he is but instead, in the simplest way possible, shows another how they can, in their own way, also achieve their own form of awakening and enlightenment. Is that not true?

JOHN: Yes.

KRIS: The one who boasts that he or she has the most enlightenment in this sense has none at all. It would indeed be considered completely fraudulent. Do you have other inquiries? What is the time perhaps?

MARK: Twenty to eight.

KRIS: Perhaps if there are some listeners who wish to call, what is the number they need to dial?

MARK: The number to call is 416-204-9723. If you do call, please give us your name and where you're calling from and please turn the volume down on your computer cause there is a lag.

KRIS: In the meantime do you have other inquiries or questions?

MARK: Just to comment a little there… that just… it's impossible to define something or to understand something that is constantly changing. We are not static at any way shape or form and…

KRIS: And yet intuitively you have at least a certain sense of understanding yourself and you are constantly changing, are you not?

MARK: Correct, but I still don't fully understand myself.

KRIS: Indeed because you are perceiving the understanding merely from the point of view of the ego construction and it senses that larger energy from which it is birthed continuously, but it tries to use its limited resources to understand that which is unlimited. It can only utilize the perceptions derived through the physical sensory mechanisms to try and get an understanding at that level of itself. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes I do.

KRIS: However you have, as all of you do, you have another capacity, you have an inner self. You could consider it an outie and innie in some fashion.

(Laughter)

KRIS: This inner self, which is indeed in so few words, a layer of consciousness immediately below conscious perceptions. This inner self has sufficient awareness of all of itself but because Self is ever-expanding, it continuously marvels at its ability to always be more than what it was or thought it was the moment before. Does that make some bizarre sense to you?

MARK: Yes it does. All That Is does not understand All That Is and takes joy in expressing itself through us in all its forms in order to comprehend and express itself.

KRIS: And if All That Is is still scratching its metaphysical head, wondering at the wonders of itself, then perhaps you can give yourselves a break.

JOHN: Oh yes.

KRIS: In the sense that you do not need to understand the fullness of your being but at least the fullness of your experience of being, that is very different. Do you not agree?

MARK: Very lovely quote.

KRIS: Understand the fullness and live the fullness of your being and you will find that indeed value fulfillment fulfills itself. That is another lovely quote.

(Mark confirms)

KRIS: Are there inquiries perhaps?

MARK: No, not at the moment.

KRIS: Do you wish a brief break?

MARK: Yes, a quick one.

KRIS: Indeed.

(Musical interlude)

MARK: And were back! And for those of you out in radio land, the phone number to call is 416-204-9723, we have about 10 or 15 minutes left in the show, if you’ve got a question for Kris on the topic, give us a shout, 416-204-9723.

JOHN: And just to cement in my mind what Kris said before the break, you may not understand the fullness of being but you can live in the fullness of your being. I like that!

MARK: Very profound.

KRIS: Indeed, and the only reason is that again, you are more than the sum of all of your parts, more than the sum total of all of your incarnations or focuses of Essence or expressions of Essence, aspects and so on and so forth, and yet there is only so much of your lovely selves that enjoys the opportunity to interact with the creations of material energy as such.

Your ego construction is again, not the impediment to, but an actual helpmate. Its function is not only to direct your attention to your creations within material energy, but to also enables a recognition of the greater sources of your wisdom and reason if you but allow it.

When you do allow this particular aspect of the ego construction to function naturally without impediment or hindrances, then your growth as individuals, the growth of your potential, the displays of your potentialities that are greatly magnified. When you resist it, when you insist that consciously and subconsciously you conform to the official line of consciousness, you effectively narrow the scope of your capacities to function as the creators of your realities. You must then create within a narrower confine but if you did allow, if you did permit this, then the spectrum of perceptions from within which you operate constantly widens and as persons, you excel because you have permitted it. And you do not need those such as ourselves, to give you permission to experience more of whom and what you are, you can do that on your own, like very good boys and girls. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes.

KRIS: And do you have inquiries?

JOHN: Well just a comment from me. I'm thinking… actually it’s the old rational mind. I think this is my first mind working here, not my second mind, although… anyway it seems to me that allowing our life to be, allowing are being is a corollary or a necessary… the idea that we are more than the sum of our parts suggests to me that that's why we have to allow our being without understanding it because if we’re always more than we understand, then by allowing more than we understand to happen, in terms of actual being, then we're allowing more of our self to be.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: Gosh, it’s hard to say that.

KRIS: And the more you allow, then you actually experience something a tad beyond simply knowing. You have experience. So it is no longer an intellectualization of wondering what it is like but it is factual from your point of view.

JOHN: Well that raises an interesting paradox for me because on the one hand were talking about us having the ability to do this or not to do this, but ultimately, we can’t not be and whether we understand it or not is not the issue.

MARK: And you cannot do.

KRIS: It is a choice and some actually do exercise that prerogative and that is how they too experience the fullness of their being or not being whether Shakespeare is involved or not.

MARK: To do or not to do?

JOHN: Yes, so another way to think about it… I'm just rattling this stuff around my head… but keeping in mind that fascinating and provocative idea that we’re always more than the sum of our parts, in a way we could say that the sum of our parts is official reality and ‘the more’ is unofficial reality.

KRIS: That may be more than rationalization, however, there is still a ring of truth within it. The more you are, the more you can actually move beyond the duality and the duplicity that necessarily functions within the tensions between the official and unofficial lines of consciousness.

JOHN: Ah, so just Being, is a way for us perhaps occasionally, to slip through one of those holes.

KRIS: Indeed. You can then straddle both official and unofficial lines of consciousness and experience yourself on a wider perception. Now, how an individual interprets for himself or herself what being is, can be another kettle of fish altogether. It is said often that people tell each other ‘be yourself’ but what is yourself?

JOHN: And how can you be anything else?

KRIS: Indeed! Now if you wish to know, to a small degree, what yourself is above and beyond some of the limited ideas you have on that subject matter, then you might avail yourself of the set of discussions we gave last fall on ‘Who Are You’. Now what is the time?

MARK: It is eight o’clock!

KRIS: Indeed then, we leave you to the wonders of your lovely official and unofficial selves and thank you dearly for your consideration.

JOHN: Thank you, Kris.

MARK: Thank you.

Just to point out, the ‘Who Are You’ series which started last fall, those transcripts are available for free on the krischronicles.com website, that's Kris with a K. And also, there's a five-CD set available of the audio files for a small fee. These sets include the meditations and practices and adventures that Kris delivered that help you reach those understandings and those higher states, and also like to say that the Lotus Mind workshop which is coming up in two weeks now, is almost sold out, it's doing extremely well, the numbers keep going up and that's about it. I'd like to thank you all for listening and…

SERGE: And thank you for natradio, for hosting us… oh, thatradio.

(Laughter)

MARK: www.thatradio.com, have a good night.

SERGE: That was your old self. (Referring to the previous name ‘natradio’)

(Session ends)